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| Tax Dollars Wisely Spent? |
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>>KEVIN WHITE: THANK YOU, MR. CHAIRMAN.
I'D LIKE TO DIRECT OUR STAFF TO GET WITH THE INTERNAL
PERFORMANCE AUDITOR AND SEE HOW LOWRY PARK ZOO HAS SPENT
THE DOLLARS THAT THEY'VE RECEIVED FROM THE COUNTY.
AS WE SEE, THEY'VE BEEN IN THE NEWS QUITE A BIT, AND I JUST
WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT THE COUNTY DOLLARS THAT HAVE BEEN
SPENT AT THE ZOO HAVE BEEN IN THE APPROPRIATE FASHION.
I KNOW A GREAT MAJORITY OF WHAT WE DO ARE CAPITAL
IMPROVEMENT PROJECTS WITH THE PARK, BUT -- AND I JUST WANT
TO -- I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT --
>>JIM NORMAN: WOULDN'T THAT BE THE CLERK?
>>PAT BEAN: IT WOULD BE THE CLERK.
>>ERIC JOHNSON: IF I CAN ADDRESS THAT, THERE'S TWO
RELATIONSHIPS WE HAVE.
FOR ALL THE CAPITAL PROJECTS, OUR RELATIONSHIP IS NOT WITH
THE ZOOLOGICAL SOCIETY, IT'S WITH THE CITY OF TAMPA.
ALL OF OUR MONEY GOES DIRECTLY TO TAMPA, AND THEY HAVE FULL
ACCOUNTABILITY TO US FOR HOW THE ZOO SPENDS THAT MONEY ON
PROJECTS, SO THAT COULD BE A FOCUS.
THE DIRECT RELATIONSHIP THAT WE HAVE WITH THE ZOO -- AND
PAT AND I MET WITH REPRESENTATIVES OF THE ZOO LAST WEEK.
I MET AGAIN YESTERDAY.
THEY HAVE A BOARD MEETING THIS FRIDAY WHERE THEY'LL HAVE
SOME NEW OFFICERS.
WE HAVE A DIRECT RELATIONSHIP WITH THE ZOO IN REGARD TO A
CONTRACT WHERE I PAY THEM I THINK IT'S $1.04 PER ATTENDEE
OF THE ZOO, SO WE'RE PAYING TO SUBSIDIZE WHAT THEY CHARGE
PEOPLE AT THE GATE SO THAT IT'S AN AFFORDABLE OPPORTUNITY
FOR HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY RESIDENTS, AND WE'RE PAYING THEM --
LAST YEAR IT WAS 450,000, THIS YEAR IT'S 10% LESS, 405,000,
BUT WE DON'T PAY FOR REIMBURSEMENT OF COSTS, SO I DON'T
THINK THERE'S ANY OPPORTUNITY FOR OUR DOLLARS TO HAVE GONE
TO SOME INAPPROPRIATE EXPENDITURE BY THE ZOO.
WE'RE BASICALLY SUBSIDIZING THE GATE SO THAT WHEN SOMEONE
BUYS A TICKET TO THE ZOO IT'S CHEAPER.
YOU'RE CERTAINLY WELCOME TO HAVE THAT AUDITED.
I'M COMFORTABLE THAT THERE'S NOT REALLY MUCH TO LOOK AT
THERE.
WE'VE TRIED [INDISCERNIBLE CROSS TALK]
>>KEVIN WHITE: THAT'S ON OUR BEHALF.
BUT WHAT ABOUT THE CLERK'S BEHALF?
>>ERIC JOHNSON: WELL, THE CLERK'S OFFICE WOULD BE LOOKING
AT WHETHER WE HAD DOCUMENTATION THAT SHOWED THAT THEY HAD
SUFFICIENT VISITORS LAST YEAR OR THIS YEAR UNDER THE NEW
CONTRACT TO JUSTIFY THAT SUBSIDY.
IT'S -- THEY CAN AUDIT IT.
IT'S PRETTY SIMPLE FOR ANYONE TO AUDIT.
WE DON'T HAVE THE COMPLEX RELATIONSHIP THAT I SUSPECT THE
CITY HAS WITH THEIR OWNERSHIP ISSUES, BUT WE'RE COMFORTABLE
WITH WHAT YOU'D LIKE TO DO.
WE CERTAINLY -- I E-MAILED PAT THIS MORNING.
WE'RE CERTAINLY GOING TO LOOK AT ANY AUDITS THAT THE CITY
HAS REQUESTED TO SEE --
>>KEVIN WHITE: WHERE DOES THE CAPITAL PROJECTS COME FROM?
>>ERIC JOHNSON: THE CAPITAL PROJECT IS WE GIVE MONEY TO
THE CITY OF TAMPA SINCE THEY OWN THE ZOO AND THEY PAY FOR
THE IMPROVEMENTS AT THE ZOO SINCE IT WILL BE THEIR ASSET.
WE DO THE SAME THING WITH THE AQUARIUM WHEN WE GIVE MONEY
FOR EXHIBITS AT THE AQUARIUM.
CITY OWNS IT, CITY ASSET.
WE GIVE MONEY DIRECTLY TO THE CITY, AND THEY'RE ACCOUNTABLE
TO US.
>>KEVIN WHITE: AND I UNDERSTAND THAT.
THIS IS WHERE MY DILEMMA COMES IN WITH THAT, AND NOT THAT
THERE IS ANY IMPROPRIETY, BUT WE NEED TO MAKE SURE BECAUSE
THERE HAS BEEN SOME ALLEGATIONS, AND WE CAN SEE THAT
THERE'S BEEN SOME -- NO PUN INTENDED -- MONKEY BUSINESS
GOING ON AT THE ZOO, SO THEREFORE, FROM AN ACCOUNTING --
>>ROSE FERLITA: MOSI.
>> [INAUDIBLE]
>>KEVIN WHITE: YEAH, THAT TOO.
>>ERIC JOHNSON: WE'RE COMFORTABLE WITH THAT, COMMISSIONER.
>>KEVIN WHITE: WELL, BUT MY POINT IS, ERIC, YOU CAN --
FROM AN ACCOUNTING STANDPOINT, YOU CAN MOVE FUNDS FROM ONE
ACCOUNT TO THE OTHER WITH -- WITH RELATIVE EASE, AND IF WE
PAY FOR SOMETHING OUT OF A CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PROJECT, IT
CAN BE REIMBURSED AND THEN FUNNELED A DIFFERENT WAY.
NOT THAT -- AND I'M NOT ALLEGING THAT AT ALL, BUT THAT'S A
VERY POSSIBLE SCENARIO --
>>ERIC JOHNSON: I UNDERSTAND.
>>KEVIN WHITE: -- AND I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE.
>>ERIC JOHNSON: THAT WOULD BE AUDIT, THEN, OF THE CITY OF
TAMPA AND THEIR HANDLING OF OUR FUNDS, AND WE'RE
COMFORTABLE IF YOU'D LIKE TO --
>>KEVIN WHITE: ALL I'M SAYING, IF WE'RE GIVING ALMOST A
HALF MILLION DOLLARS A YEAR OF TAXPAYER MONEY AND WE HAVE
SEEN THAT THERE'S OBVIOUSLY SOME SORT OF SCRUTINY THAT THE
ZOO IS UNDER NOW, I THINK WE OWE THE TAXPAYERS OF
HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY A LOOK AT THAT.
AND THE SECOND THING, I'D LIKE TO MENTION -- I WAS ASKING
THE COUNTY ATTORNEY A MOMENT AGO -- I DON'T KNOW EXACTLY
WHAT OUR RULES ARE, AND I'D LIKE HER OR SOMEBODY FROM HER
STAFF TO ENLIGHTEN ME.
WHEN WE ARE GIVING NONPROFITS OR OTHER ENTITIES SUCH AS THE
ZOO ANY AMOUNT OF MONEY -- IN SOME CASES WE'RE GIVING
ENTITIES MILLIONS OF DOLLARS, BUT THERE IS NO, QUOTE,
UNQUOTE, ACCOUNTABILITY OR TRANSPARENCY -- WELL, HEAR ME
OUT.
WELL, YOU'RE SHAKING YOUR HEAD YEAH, PAT, BUT LET ME TELL
YOU WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT.
WE HAVE GIVEN MONEY TO COMMISSIONS AND THINGS OF THAT
NATURE, AND I CAN -- I DON'T WANT TO NAME ANY IN
PARTICULAR, BUT WHAT I'M SAYING IS WE'VE GIVEN AN ENTITY A
MILLION DOLLARS, BUT NOW WE COME BACK AND SAY TO THEM, WE'D
LIKE TO FIND OUT WHERE THE MONEY IS SPENT, WE'D LIKE TO
KNOW HOW MUCH OF YOUR BUDGET IS BEING SPENT ON
ADMINISTRATION.
WE'RE TRYING TO -- WE WANT TO SEE WHERE YOUR DOLLARS ARE
BEING SPENT.
WELL, WE ONLY HAVE TO SHOW YOU MONEY ON WHAT YOU SAY OR THE
AMOUNT OF MONEY THAT YOU HAVE GIVEN US.
IF OUR BUDGET'S 20 MILLION AND YOU GAVE US A MILLION, WELL,
I THINK WE OUGHT TO STILL BE ABLE TO SEE -- WE OUGHT TO BE
ABLE TO SEE THE BOOKS AND FIND OUT WHERE OUR MONEY IS, AND
THAT'S -- AND WE'VE HAD COMMISSIONS -- AND I CAN NAME THEM,
BUT I JUST -- RIGHT NOW TELL US, WELL, YOU DON'T HAVE --
YOU DON'T HAVE THAT RIGHT.
YOU CAN'T SEE OUR BOOKS.
YOU DON'T -- IT'S NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS AS A BOARD WHAT OUR
ADMINISTRATION MAKES, WHAT OUR DEPARTMENT HEADS OR -- NOT
DEPARTMENT HEADS BUT UPPER-LEVEL ADMINISTRATORS MAKE AS FAR
AS PAYROLL ON THESE TYPE OF DEALS.
>>PAT BEAN: WHEN WE ENTER INTO A CONTRACT -- AND WE HAVE
TO ENTER INTO A CONTRACT TO TRANSFER ANY COUNTY DOLLARS TO
ANY OTHER AGENCY, WHETHER IT'S A COMMISSION OR WHETHER IT'S
A PRIVATE NONPROFIT OR WHATEVER IT IS.
THERE IS A REQUIREMENT IN THE CONTRACT THAT REQUIRES THEM
TO PRODUCE AN AUDIT THAT WE CAN REVIEW.
NOW, I WILL ADMIT -- COMMISSIONER NORMAN KNOWS THIS QUITE
WELL --
>>KEVIN WHITE: WELL, IT'S BEEN LIKE PULLING HEN'S TEETH
GETTING THEM, THEN.
>>PAT BEAN: WELL, SOMETIMES IT IS LIKE HEN'S TEETH GETTING
THEM.
WE'VE HAD TROUBLE WITH THE SPORTS AUTHORITY OVER AND OVER
AND OVER AGAIN UNTIL ABOUT TWO YEARS AGO, I THINK IT WAS.
COMMISSIONER NORMAN YOU REMEMBER THIS WHEN WE WERE TRYING
OUR BEST TO GET INFORMATION FROM THEM, AND IT REALLY TOOK A
REAL HARD PUSH TO GET IT, EVEN THOUGH WE HAVE AGREEMENTS
THAT SAY THEY HAVE TO PROVIDE US AN AUDIT OF THEIR FUNDS
AND HOW THOSE FUNDS ARE SPENT, AND WE SPELL OUT HOW WE'RE
GOING TO SPEND THOSE FUNDS.
>>KEVIN WHITE: BUT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE FUNDS THAT WE
GIVE THEM; CORRECT?
>>PAT BEAN: THEY HAVE TO GIVE US A COMPLETE AUDIT OF THEIR
AGENCY BEFORE WE GIVE THEM MORE FUNDS THE NEXT YEAR.
WE DON'T GIVE A PRIVATE NONPROFIT OUR DOLLARS AND ONLY LOOK
AT OUR DOLLARS.
WE ASK TO SEE THEIR WHOLE AUDIT OF THEIR WHOLE AGENCY.
IS THAT NOT CORRECT, ERIC?
>>KEN HAGAN: ALL RIGHT.
THIS IS SUPPOSED TO BE FOR FUTURE ISSUES, SO LET'S
DETERMINE WHAT THE SCOPE IS AND IF WE'RE GOING TO ASK FOR
SOMETHING.
>>KEVIN WHITE: WELL, MY ENTIRE SCOPE AND THE WHOLE REASON
FOR BRINGING THIS UP, I JUST WANT CLARITY OF WHAT OUR --
WHAT OUR AUTHORITY IS WHEN WE'RE GIVING ORGANIZATIONS MONEY
AND WE ASK THEM FOR ACCOUNTABILITY AND/OR AN AUDIT AND
THEY'RE TELLING US NO, SO DO WE HAVE THE -- THE RIGHT AT
THAT TIME TO EITHER MANDATE THAT, OR DO WE JUST PULL OUR
FUNDING FROM THEM?
BECAUSE I DON'T THINK THAT'S A --
>>ERIC JOHNSON: COMMISSIONERS, ON MOST OF OUR NONPROFIT
CONTRACTS WE HAVE AN AUDIT REQUIREMENT.
WE SUSPEND PAYMENTS WHEN WE DETERMINE THAT THEY HAVE HIT
THE APPROPRIATE TIME FOR AN AUDIT AND HAVEN'T DELIVERED US
ONE, AND WE WILL NOT MAKE PAYMENTS TO THEM UNTIL SUCH TIME
AS THEY PROVIDE US THE AUDIT.
WE DO THE SAME THING IF THEY DON'T PROVIDE US AN INSURANCE
CERTIFICATE, SO IN THE CASE OF, AS I SAID, WITH THE MONEY -
- IT'S ACTUALLY ABOUT 7.5 MILLION THAT HAS GONE FOR ZOO
IMPROVEMENTS BY WAY OF THE CITY OF TAMPA.
WE DO GET TAMPA'S AUDIT, WE LOOK AT THEIR BOOKS.
>>KEVIN WHITE: WELL, THIS ONE WASN'T POINTED AT THE ZOO.
>>KEN HAGAN: COULD WE JUST AGENDA THIS FOR NEXT MEETING OR
A FUTURE MEETING?
I MEAN, WE'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO HAVE THE ENTIRE DIALOGUE ON
THE DISCUSSION HERE.
>>PAT BEAN: WE CAN.
I JUST NEED TO BE SURE THAT WE NEED TO BE CLEAR ABOUT WHAT
INFORMATION WE'RE BRINGING BACK.
>>RENEE LEE: WE'LL VISIT --
>>KEN HAGAN: WHATEVER HE WANTS US TO BRING BACK.
>>KEVIN WHITE: JUST THE COUNTY'S POSITION AND WHAT OUR
CURRENT RULE IS --
>>KEN HAGAN: OUR POLICY IS.
>>KEVIN WHITE: -- AND THE POLICY.
>>RENEE LEE: YES.
>>KEN HAGAN: OKAY.
>>JIM NORMAN: I DO NEED TO SAY ONE THING ABOUT THAT.
>>KEN HAGAN: COMMISSIONER NORMAN.
>>JIM NORMAN: BECAUSE DO YOU REMEMBER THE SUPER BOWL?
IF WE WOULD HAVE SHOWED WE GAVE MONEY TO TAMPA BAY &
COMPANY AND THERE WAS A DEAL ABOUT, OKAY, SHOW US YOUR BID,
IF THAT BID WOULD HAVE BEEN ON THE STREET AND SHOWN THE
WORLD OUR BID, WE WOULDN'T HAVE GOTTEN THAT SUPER BOWL, SO
BE CAREFUL --
>>KEN HAGAN: THERE'S SOME CONFIDENTIALITY --
>>JIM NORMAN: THERE'S GOT TO BE SOME CONFIDENTIALITY
BECAUSE IT'S GOING TO HURT OUR COMMUNITY IF WE'RE BIDDING
ON BUSINESSES OR BIDDING ON HUGE PROJECTS --
>>KEVIN WHITE: AND WE TALKED ABOUT THAT.
THAT'S AN EXCLUSIONARY CLAUSE WITH THAT, AND THAT'S FINE,
BUT --
>>JIM NORMAN: OKAY.
I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE WE DON'T GO TOO FAR.
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